"I've got a work-not-really-in-progress that's a murder mystery."
Ouch. I've only done a proper mystery once, precisely because of this problem of having to start from the end and work one's way backwards. I mean, I usually *do* figure out the end of the story before I've reached there, and then once I know, I can go back and add a bit of foreshadow if needed. (Or my Muse can take early passages that had no deep meaning when I wrote them originally, and turn them into foreshadows. He does that quite a lot; it saves me a ton of work.) But I'm sure mystery writers must be far better organized than I am.
"Joe is out of milk. Joe goes to the store. The store is out of milk, so Joe goes to a different store. As Joe is trying to find the milk at the unfamiliar store, [Thing happens] and Joe is now involved in a plot to overthrow the Broccoli Growers Association of America. He thwarts the plot by [Thing], [Thing], and [Thing], and finally by recovering the chairman's pinky ring (which he knows about because of [Thing])."
You have just described my average outline.
(*Grubs through my notes for an example.*)
Okay, here is a 1996 outline of a Three Lands novel I'm issuing next year. (Major spoilers, obviously.) At that time, I thought the novel would have twenty chapters and be divided into three parts. The outline represents the scenes I'd written in my head or had figured out were going to happen. In some cases (for example, "Background"), I knew almost exactly what happened in the scene, because I'd written the scene in my head or had typed it up. But in other cases, I didn't have a clue. "The priests' discussion" meant I had *absolutely no idea* what was going to happen in that scene, except that I needed the priests to mention one bit of information that would be important for the protagonist to know later.
o--o--o
I. Afternoon
1. Background 2. Death 3. Shipboard conversation/Barbarian sailor 4. Shipwreck/Capture by the Lieutenant 5. Talk with the Commander/Appointment 6. Talk with the honorary sublieutenant 7. Revelation/Decision to stay
II. Dusk
8. Inviting the priests/The priests' discussion 9. Talk with L on patrol/L arriving at Co's tent/Talk about Blue Tent 10. Dishonorable dismissal/Talk with Co 11. Talk with Co/Visit to Blue Tent/Sleep 12. Talk with Co/Offering the cup 13. Dolan's offer 14. Aftermath 15. L's injury and D's vow/Apology 16. Honor brooch/Acceptance of cup
III. Night
17. Visit to Peaktop/Talk before attack on the palace 18. Destruction of the palace/Burying the memoir 19. Arrest/Decision to question 20. Release/Final destruction
o--o--o
Below is the 2008 version of the outline. By then, the novel had six parts. Again, some of these scenes were clear in my head, while others were just fuzzy bits of hopefulness. I've included the Xs, so that you can see which scenes had been typed up, though some of the untyped ones were drafted in my head. Two Xs meant the scene was all typed up; one X meant it was partially typed up.
o--o--o
==Koretia
xx Remus's house x Market xx Tavern Remus's death
==Sea of Storms/Marcadia, near the coast
Shipboard conversation; barbarian captain Shipwreck xx Arrival in Marcadia xx Capture by the Lieutenant x Talk with the Commander xx Talk with the Captain and the Lieutenant x Talk with the sublieutenant Revelation of the Captain's attraction to Dolan Decision to stay
==Marcadia - capital
Lieutenant's honor brooch; dishonorable dismissal x Talk with the Captain and the Commander Talk with Arpeshians and barbarian Talk with Commander at the baths x Inviting the priests The priests' discussion
==Arpesh, next to the border with the Central Provinces
x Talk with the Lieutenant on patrol The Lieutenant arriving at the Commander's hut The Lieutenant arriving back at tent x Talk with Captain about the Lieutenant x Imminent attack Visit to the Blue Tent Sleep Talk with Captain Offering the cup Talk with Captain
IV. Central Provinces - Lone Bay
x Talk with Captain xx Dolan's offer xx The tale of imprisonment xx Aftermath Fight with soldiers; talk with the Captain and the Lieutenant Talk with the Commander the next day
V. Central Provinces - Border with the mountains
x The Lieutenant's injury; Dolan's vow Apology from the other soldiers Dolan awarded honor brooch Acceptance of cup
VI. Southern Emor - Peaktop
Visit to conquered town Visit to the capital xx Discussion of battle plans
xx VII. Southern Emor - the Chara's Palace
xx Discussion with the Commander, the Lieutenant, the Captain; murder of the Chara; destruction of the palace xx Reading Andrew's memoir; burying the memoir; talk afterwards; discovery that they're being hunted xx Arrest; decision to question xx Questioning and release xx Final destruction
o--o--o
Basically, I was still trying to work out the middle portion of the novel. The final version of the novel ended up having thirty-nine chapters divided into eight parts. (All I can say is, Thank goodness for e-books and self-publishing. I would have been a nightmare to any editor at a traditional publisher.)
"I get A-E no problem, struggle a bit with F, if I'm lucky F kicks off G-I, J-M I can more or less work out, and I know X-Z, but how the hell do I get from N to W???"
It sounds as though you and I plot novels in the same way! Fortunately, I have a well-practiced Muse by now, so it usually doesn't take him long to come up with the answers. But I remember, when I was writing "Law of Vengeance" in 1995, having to sit down and make flow charts in order to figure out how to resolve the seemingly unsolvable problem I'd landed the ruler with: the fact that he couldn't beget an heir. So I can certainly empathize with your struggles.
That being the case, maybe an annotated draft of one of my scenes will indeed help you in working out your issue of plotting scenes. I'll send it to you in a few days, once I've put it together.
no subject
Ouch. I've only done a proper mystery once, precisely because of this problem of having to start from the end and work one's way backwards. I mean, I usually *do* figure out the end of the story before I've reached there, and then once I know, I can go back and add a bit of foreshadow if needed. (Or my Muse can take early passages that had no deep meaning when I wrote them originally, and turn them into foreshadows. He does that quite a lot; it saves me a ton of work.) But I'm sure mystery writers must be far better organized than I am.
"Joe is out of milk. Joe goes to the store. The store is out of milk, so Joe goes to a different store. As Joe is trying to find the milk at the unfamiliar store, [Thing happens] and Joe is now involved in a plot to overthrow the Broccoli Growers Association of America. He thwarts the plot by [Thing], [Thing], and [Thing], and finally by recovering the chairman's pinky ring (which he knows about because of [Thing])."
You have just described my average outline.
(*Grubs through my notes for an example.*)
Okay, here is a 1996 outline of a Three Lands novel I'm issuing next year. (Major spoilers, obviously.) At that time, I thought the novel would have twenty chapters and be divided into three parts. The outline represents the scenes I'd written in my head or had figured out were going to happen. In some cases (for example, "Background"), I knew almost exactly what happened in the scene, because I'd written the scene in my head or had typed it up. But in other cases, I didn't have a clue. "The priests' discussion" meant I had *absolutely no idea* what was going to happen in that scene, except that I needed the priests to mention one bit of information that would be important for the protagonist to know later.
I. Afternoon
1. Background
2. Death
3. Shipboard conversation/Barbarian sailor
4. Shipwreck/Capture by the Lieutenant
5. Talk with the Commander/Appointment
6. Talk with the honorary sublieutenant
7. Revelation/Decision to stay
II. Dusk
8. Inviting the priests/The priests' discussion
9. Talk with L on patrol/L arriving at Co's tent/Talk about Blue Tent
10. Dishonorable dismissal/Talk with Co
11. Talk with Co/Visit to Blue Tent/Sleep
12. Talk with Co/Offering the cup
13. Dolan's offer
14. Aftermath
15. L's injury and D's vow/Apology
16. Honor brooch/Acceptance of cup
III. Night
17. Visit to Peaktop/Talk before attack on the palace
18. Destruction of the palace/Burying the memoir
19. Arrest/Decision to question
20. Release/Final destruction
Below is the 2008 version of the outline. By then, the novel had six parts. Again, some of these scenes were clear in my head, while others were just fuzzy bits of hopefulness. I've included the Xs, so that you can see which scenes had been typed up, though some of the untyped ones were drafted in my head. Two Xs meant the scene was all typed up; one X meant it was partially typed up.
==Koretia
xx Remus's house
x Market
xx Tavern
Remus's death
==Sea of Storms/Marcadia, near the coast
Shipboard conversation; barbarian captain
Shipwreck
xx Arrival in Marcadia
xx Capture by the Lieutenant
x Talk with the Commander
xx Talk with the Captain and the Lieutenant
x Talk with the sublieutenant
Revelation of the Captain's attraction to Dolan
Decision to stay
==Marcadia - capital
Lieutenant's honor brooch; dishonorable dismissal
x Talk with the Captain and the Commander
Talk with Arpeshians and barbarian
Talk with Commander at the baths
x Inviting the priests
The priests' discussion
==Arpesh, next to the border with the Central Provinces
x Talk with the Lieutenant on patrol
The Lieutenant arriving at the Commander's hut
The Lieutenant arriving back at tent
x Talk with Captain about the Lieutenant
x Imminent attack
Visit to the Blue Tent
Sleep
Talk with Captain
Offering the cup
Talk with Captain
IV. Central Provinces - Lone Bay
x Talk with Captain
xx Dolan's offer
xx The tale of imprisonment
xx Aftermath
Fight with soldiers; talk with the Captain and the Lieutenant
Talk with the Commander the next day
V. Central Provinces - Border with the mountains
x The Lieutenant's injury; Dolan's vow
Apology from the other soldiers
Dolan awarded honor brooch
Acceptance of cup
VI. Southern Emor - Peaktop
Visit to conquered town
Visit to the capital
xx Discussion of battle plans
xx VII. Southern Emor - the Chara's Palace
xx Discussion with the Commander, the Lieutenant, the Captain; murder of the Chara; destruction of the palace
xx Reading Andrew's memoir; burying the memoir; talk afterwards; discovery that they're being hunted
xx Arrest; decision to question
xx Questioning and release
xx Final destruction
Basically, I was still trying to work out the middle portion of the novel. The final version of the novel ended up having thirty-nine chapters divided into eight parts. (All I can say is, Thank goodness for e-books and self-publishing. I would have been a nightmare to any editor at a traditional publisher.)
"I get A-E no problem, struggle a bit with F, if I'm lucky F kicks off G-I, J-M I can more or less work out, and I know X-Z, but how the hell do I get from N to W???"
It sounds as though you and I plot novels in the same way! Fortunately, I have a well-practiced Muse by now, so it usually doesn't take him long to come up with the answers. But I remember, when I was writing "Law of Vengeance" in 1995, having to sit down and make flow charts in order to figure out how to resolve the seemingly unsolvable problem I'd landed the ruler with: the fact that he couldn't beget an heir. So I can certainly empathize with your struggles.
That being the case, maybe an annotated draft of one of my scenes will indeed help you in working out your issue of plotting scenes. I'll send it to you in a few days, once I've put it together.